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Saturday, September 10, 2011

Are Religious Leaders Given Too Much Credit for Their Knowledge on God



Leaders are publicly asked tough questions on a regular basis. School teachers are asked questions by their students, public companies are questioned by consumers, and Presidents of countries are constantly being questioned by the press and citizens, this is a valuable way of communicating and allows us to communicate openly in order to learn more. However, religious leaders such as priest, bishops, prophets, or imams etc. are rarely questioned if ever publicly. Are we putting our religious figures on a pedestal so high that we are not questioning them enough on their own knowledge of God?

Every religion claims to be right and says that other religions are false. Often, people who follow a belief in God do not like to call their belief a religion because it puts them in the same category as the beliefs they say are false. Instead they will claim to have a personal relationship with God which gives them the feeling they are not believing a religion like everyone else. Webster’s dictionary defines religion as, “the service and worship of God or the supernatural.” Whether or not someone has a personal relationship with God it would still be considered a religion by definition. The redefining of the word religion that is happening is evidence that they believe religions other than their own are false, and are trying to distance themselves from other religions by changing the definition of their own belief because they do not want to have the same label. But just changing the definition does not change the fact that it is still a religion.

So with everyone claiming their religion is correct, how do we put our beliefs to the test in order to discover which one is true? One way to solve this problem would be to publicly question these religious figures and decided which is the most rational and meets its burden of proof. However, in the United States our first amendment which states, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” This amendment is often known as “the separation between church and state,” which is a simple way to say religion is to stay out of government and government out of religion. Because of this amendment, the government cannot publicly question the teachings of a religion, however the members of the church can.

Let’s encourage churches to start having services that are Q&A, these services could be bi-monthly or as little or as often as the members wanted. If members of the church care whether their beliefs are true, they will want to implement this into their church. Asking questions is a great way to learn for both those asking the question and those sitting in the pew listening. This is a proven method for learning; this is how all schools learn whether it is kindergarten or a college university. We know it works because there is only one proven way to do math, there are not countless views on what 4+5 equals. So for those interested in whether their beliefs are true, they should highly encourage their church to have these services. And for those churches against it, this should be a red flag to everyone.

Of course those against this idea will say, “this is not necessary since we are right.” If this is the case, by implementing a Q&A service it will help those with questions better understand, and for those who do not share the same beliefs as the church will discover that their belief or lack of was wrong. This gives atheists a reason to attend so they can ask the questions which have aided in them losing their faith, and if they find a church that can answer those questions they will become a follower of God. Since the goal is to lead unbelievers and false believers to God, there is no reason not to have these services. This will also reduce the amount of religious leaders who are knowingly teaching a false religion since they will now be questioned on it.

Just as presidents do not always get to choose what they discuss; religious leaders shouldn’t get to always choose either. Their mission should be to answer questions not only for those who already agree with them but for those who do not. If they are claiming to teach the truth they should have no objection to being asked questions publicly in church. Those who claim to be right also claim to have a direct line of communication to God, because of this they should have no problem answering any questions one could ask.

For as many false religions in the world, there is the same amount of false teachers. We should not assume our leaders know everything about God or even more than ourselves, they are fallible just as anyone else and like anyone else can also be deceived. It is in the best interest of the world to implement this simple change. There is absolutely no valid reason not to; it even gives church leaders a break since it saves them from preparing a new sermon. If the members of the church want publicly open communication so those following a false religion can discover the truth, the members will have to suggest this change and implement it. This sets a great example for other churches and would be immoral for a church to deny this, since it would mean individuals that could have been saved will not be. Implementing a Q&A service is not only a benefit to the members but is a benefit to a leader teaching a false belief, as it will expose the weakness and lead them to truth as well. If discovering the truth is the goal, this must be implemented within every congregation. On an issue that claims to be the most important one a person can make, the church cannot afford not to.

14 comments:

  1. From Anonymous One

    Let's take your first paragraph. You make a comment about public offices, public schools, public companies and then you try to take that thought process and apply it to a private organization as a comparison of what should occur.

    Why should a private organization, be it a company or a religious group, have to open up for public questioning about their operations and beliefs?

    I have owned several businesses and until I go public with a company and ask for public funds how I run the business is not open the public nor should the government require it to be so!
    Have you ever owned a business? Do you want the public to have the right to force you to answer questions about your business? That sounds like a very dangerous thing to want!

    I wasn't aware that religious groups did not have open meetings. All the ones I have been to, including several different types or denominations, were always open for questions, either privately with the church leader or in an open business meeting usually held quarterly. As a matter of fact they all published their basic beliefs in written form so those attending could make a determination if they wished to join the group or church affiliation. Why would they want to hide their beliefs? No one forces anyone to go to these churches or to believe their message. It's called freedom of religion not freedom from religion!

    I would guess that the church you attended held similar meetings. You probably just never attended because you didn't know what to ask or weren't interested at the time.

    You did however tell me that you went to your former church leader and asked him questions about God. It seems that he obliged your request without any problem.

    So what actually is your complaint?

    Who is given any church leader too much credit for their knowledge of God?

    Has any scientific research been done to substantiate your theory?

    Answer these comments and then I'll comment on your misinterpretation of the 1st Amendment.

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  2. I really hate to end a conversation with someone religious, but you clearly just want to argue for the sake of arguing. I’ve had pastors actually compliment me on this post and completely agree with it. I clearly said in this post that government CANNOT publicly question religious leaders, and that if this were to happen it would have to be the church who implements it.

    You are asking ridiculous questions that are not worth my time. If you aren’t aware of these answers that don’t even need scientific research for, than I am starting to understand why you aren’t grasping anything I’m saying. Plus you don’t value science, so I don’t know why you are asking for scientific research…

    Clearly my complaint is that there are thousands of religions all claiming they are right, and many followers/church members believe there pastor/clergy is telling them the truth. With 1000’s of religions all claiming to be true, it is not possible for them all to be right! Even if one is right, how would we know? I would like for religions that aren’t correct to be exposed. If one is left standing, great! But I don’t see that happening.

    So anyone who attends a church, mosque, etc that thinks their church leader is correct about their knowledge on God are giving their leader too much credit.

    There is no need to comment on my “misinterpretation of the 1st Amendment.” Although I would be lying if I said I wasn’t a little curious what you would come up with.

    I’m only interested in what is true; I don’t care about how something makes one feel etc… You have had plenty of time to show me what proof you have for god, but all you want to do is ask me ridiculous questions and ask me what scientific evidence I have (and I’m not even the one who has a positive claim). Again I have no idea why you ask me for scientific research/evidence because anytime you don’t like what science discovers you just say science is not credible. If you don’t value logic, science, and reason, then there is no logical argument I can give you to change your mind. No scientific data to change your mind, and no reasonable argument I can provide to help you understand.

    So with that I do appreciate your comments, but at this point I don’t see this going anywhere. Possibly in the future we can try again. However, I do hope those who read these comments will get something out of it and possibly learn something. So for that I thank you.
    Best of luck you to.

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  3. Ted,

    Anonymous One

    You are responding just like your hero, Dawkins does. You tell me you only believe in science so I ask for scientific evidence for your beliefs which seems fair.

    You wanted information on some Bible verses so I gave them. You want information on, "why is Christianity the only true religion?" yet you give no clue regarding what would be acceptable proof other than science would have to prove it! Read your history about a man named Jesus who came to help, not destroy. Read books by Josephus, a Roman historian. Read books about other belief systems.

    You don't like my questions so you call them ridiculous and ignore them. You said in the previous comment you "don't care about how something makes one feel etc..." and at the same time you say real morals are based on what is the "best good for the society". How do you find out what the society thinks is best if you don't care what someone thinks or feels? It sounds like atheistic socialism, just what Stalin and Hitler preached, where you are the leader and only you know what is best for the masses!

    Show me where I say that science is not credible! At least when I quote you I am accurate. I value true science and yes I believe there is true science. You say you are "only interested is what is true” (from your previous statement) yet you tell me there is no such thing as absolute truth. How can we have a discussion when you contradict yourself? If you don't see the contradiction in your own statements then go back to school.

    As a professor teaching seniors and grad students at a very well-known public university, I teach in a field that I worked in for years and that requires true science to be utilized on an everyday basis. The environment that my students work in requires that the results of their education and knowledge have to be accurate and provable consistently. Lives and fortunes are at risk!

    From our discussions I would say you don't even work in a science related field. Prove me wrong.

    My students can't just come to me and say I read some guy's comments and I believe him so I think you are wrong in what you teach. They have to have proof and in context and so far it hasn't happened.

    I teach them to use critical thinking skills and that their arguments and methods have to be consistent and logical and hold up in case of future legal action. You follow none of these rules so I'm not sure where you went to school or what you learned. You mix your philosophy up with your psychology and leave logic and science out.

    I have never attended a religious school or religious university and have done research on my own to make my decisions. If your Christian school taught things improperly then blame them not God. I did proper research to determine what I believe. I have had countless conversations with various religious and non-religious people, including other professors in different scientific fields, for longer than you probably have been around.

    If you want to quit just because you are afraid to continue searching for the real truth then that is your choice. I'm sure those reading this, including your friends and relatives, will agree with me that you are blinded by your desire to follow Richard Dawkins and other atheists and refuse to face the facts.

    see next page...

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  4. continued...from Anonymous One

    You talk about "religion" being responsible for wars and thousands of deaths. You fail to mention that atheist led regimes have been responsible for over 110,000,000 people's deaths.

    If you want some quotes from their leaders I'll be glad to provide them. If you are just going to ignore their own words about why they persecuted religious people and others that didn't conform to atheism, then I won't waste my time. People like Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Lenin and many others were avowed atheist and their goal was to rid the world of any religion except atheism! Even Dawkins admits that he has a problem explaining why what Hitler did was wrong!

    If that's who you want to call your leaders and friends then watch your back because they are pure evil. I am not arguing, only showing true concern for what I believe is a dangerous path that you are following.

    I assume from your last message and lack of response to my other comments on the "religion blog" that you will not be commenting again.

    Have a great day and never quit searching for the truth! When you find it, it will truly set you free!

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  5. I say you don’t value science because of what you said here, “You mention in your reply that science is the purveyor of truth and we should rely on science to tell us what is true. If you would care to study history you would have difficulty following that belief system. Science at times told us that "bloodletting" would remove the illness from an individual. It actually caused many deaths. Science at one time told us the world was flat. Their truth changed.” You can see why I would take that as you not valuing science.

    Plus you don’t believe in evolution, and evolution is a fact! Not just a theory. If you don’t value facts I don’t see how we can get anywhere in this conversation. Even the Pope and Catholic Church recognizes that evolution is true.

    I do apologize for saying there is no “absolute truth” when I was saying that I meant “absolute moral truth” (since I think we were talking about morals at the time) and when I say that I mean we do not get our morals from a moral deity.

    The reason I’m not interested in continuing has nothing to do with the questions you ask me. I find them very easy to answer and I don’t think many are worth my time responding too and you ask so many of them at one time(we can’t possibly talk about 5-7 different subjects/questions at one time). When I do answer them you never acknowledge it, you just move right on to your next question. Like I said, if there is a question you really want an answer too, just ask me to answer it and I will. But whenever I ask a question it takes forever for you to answer and I don’t ask nearly as many as you.

    This has seemed like a one way conversation where you dodge my questions and just bombard me with yours. It seems that more than half the time I am just clearing up things you are twisting and we aren’t getting anywhere. Things like claiming atheism is a religion is ridiculous, if that is where you are intellectually than I don’t see us getting anywhere. Saying atheism is a religion is like saying not collecting stamps is a hobby.

    I don’t see why we have talked about my non-belief in a god for so much, when you are trying to say your God exist. You should be giving me evidence that he does, not trying to show me that my non-belief is wrong. If you want to show that, the only way to do it is by demonstrating yours is correct.

    So if you want to continue, why don’t you start with your #1 best reason/evidence that demonstrates that your God exists.

    And you are right, I don't work in a science related field, is it saddening to hear that you do. You said earlier, “if I truly believe in something I continue to search for reasons to support why I believe.” That is not very scientific, true scientists would follow the evidence, not continue searching for evidence to support what they want to be true. But since that is what you do, I look forward to hearing your best reason/evidence for why you believe your God exists.

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  6. Religious wars > 200 (I am still listing them)
    Atheist Wars = 0 (fought over religion)

    THUS :
    Deaths in religious wars (approx) 1.5 EPU = 10 BILLION people ! (Still classifying)
    Deaths in atheist wars = ZERO !!

    If people want to deny facts / evidence, I wont waste my time responding. I have read through the causes of war for over 1700 wars - not ONE was started by an atheist over religion.

    I encourage EVERYONE to please check the history books. I encourage EVERYONE to please check facs when invented by theists.

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  7. To the anonymous who wrote about wars above please provide information on what history books you are using and where you got your facts.

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  8. Ted,
    From Anonymous One

    Since you tell me I ask way too much of you I'll keep it simple.

    You ask me for my best evidence for proving God is real. You typically don't believe what I provide as evidence; therefore, I will use a source you have provided since you quoted them as reliable. I assume you think they are reliable because you quoted them as a proof for "evolution" being a fact. I value facts and will use your "facts".

    Please follow the logic you have provided.

    You stated in your last response that, "and evolution is a fact! Not just a theory. If you don’t value facts I don’t see how we can get anywhere in this conversation. Even the Pope and Catholic Church recognizes(sp) that evolution is true." (fact per Ted)

    Since you give the Pope and the Catholic Church as an authoritative resource I will also use them.

    Evidence based on reliable resource as provided and quoted by Ted Musk.

    Since even the Pope and Catholic Church recognize that God, the Judeo Christian church, Jesus and Mary the Virgin Mother of Christ are in fact real the statement that God is real must be true.

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  9. This is exactly what I was talking about when I said you like twisting my words and making ridiculous statements.

    Obviously I don’t think the Pope or Catholic Church is a credible source. After all, you have read at least 2 of my post that show I don’t agree with them. Clearly, anyone reading these comments understood that I said, “EVEN the Pope and Catholic Church recognize evolution as true.” So if you are taking that to mean I think they are a credible source let me clear it up for you. I said that because the Pope and I would clearly disagree on many things but we would at least agree evolution is true.

    This conversation really is turning into a joke based on the fact I had to clear something like that up for you. I gave you a great opportunity to explain your best evidence for why you believe your god exists and that’s the response you gave? You can have another try if you’d like.

    But question for you, is it your ego that keeps you from admitting to yourself that what you have believed for so long is wrong and you just don’t want to admit you have been wrong or do you really think you are right? If you think you are right, I’m sure you can give me a better reason for why you believe your god is real than that last reason.

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  10. Anonymous One says:

    Before we can deal with the reality of God we have to be able to communicate.

    It would seem more obvious that if you don't believe a source is credible then you DON"T quote them or use them to prove a point. Credible means "you can trust the source as reliable and truthful". With one side of your mouth you say "Oviously I don't think the Pope and the Catholic Church is (sp) a credible source." and then turn around with the other side of your mouth and say they agree with you. If they are not trust worthy or credible then why would anyone believe anything they say whether they agree or not? By using them as a source you try to give them credibility.

    You can't have it both ways! What part of this is twisting your words? You twist them sufficicently without my help.

    That would be like me saying even retarded people believe that God doesn't exist. Using a source that I think is unreliable doesn't prove anything!

    I think I understand what you were trying to say but you came across all wrong and continue to contradict yourself.

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  11. Ted,

    Are you an honest skeptic, or a dishonest skeptic?

    Tea Tree

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  12. That's an interesting question Tea Tree. I'm a skeptic - I care about what is reality and actually the truth, and not believing in things just because it makes me feel good. I would say that makes me an honest skeptic. But I have never heard of the term honest or dishonest skeptic before.

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    Replies
    1. Ted,

      Yeah, that’s what I meant. An honest skeptic is one who questions everything because they are seeking truth; and, when they find it (or it finds them), they will submit to it regardless of the cost.

      A dishonest skeptic – you have seen these antagonistic types – is one who questions everything, but they seek no answers. Either they love to argue, or they need to vent, or something else. But their mind is already made up. They are unwilling truly to let in any new ideas or change, even when confronted with truth.

      If I may open up a bit, this is a terrifying question for me personally. I have dearly held beliefs, which frankly are very comfortable. Changing them is hard. Being required to change them because they were never true is very, very hard.

      Exaggerating to make a point: I don’t believe in Santa Claus. But what if I were confronted with evidence to the contrary? Obviously it would take no small mountain of science to change my long held beliefs about the nonexistence of Jolly Saint Nick. But – if that mountain were shown to me, would I believe? If such a mountain were demonstrable I think I would, because I want the truth, regardless of the cost.

      Tea Tree

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    2. Deciding you care about what is true is definitely the first step to discovering what is true. I like to say, “If you want to be right, you must be willing to be wrong.” It can be easy to let our ego get in the way sometimes thinking we are too smart to have believed a lie for so long, but with all the different beliefs in the world there is a better chance we are wrong than right. So if faith is a big part of our belief that should be a red flag for us to question it. And it is easy for people to sell us a lie that we want to be true, and easy to deny the harshness of reality.

      Good luck with your search for truth Tea Tree!

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